Choosing a Cartesian style printer under $500 CAD ($400 USD)

[curious aardvark]

looks good, certainly more stability than an i3 :-)

[Trakyan]

The Tronxy Ender 4 doesn't look like an Hbot to me. If you look opposite where the XY motors are mounted (pic #3 shows it well), the belt is run from one y rail to the other (basically, parrallel to the x rail). Look at this image of the various movement systems.
http://forums.reprap.org/file.php?397,file=84671
The HBot does not have the belts routed in this way (it would be along the top edge in those images), whereas the coreXY does. So I reckon it's coreXY. That ender 4 however does look like an HBot since it lacks the belt routing I mentioned earlier (the belts make an H, which is I think where it got the name. coreXY printers make a blocky A or an H with a cap on the top).

Personally I've got an idea for a Cartesian printer that has stationary XY motors, but each motor only controls one axis, so it's easier to calibrate than coreXY where they are coupled. The ultimaker geometry achieves this but uses more linear rods and ends up having a fair bit of moving mass (having to rotate the two smooth rods and then translate the third just to move one axis.). The design I have in mind has a typical H shaped gantry like the makerbot replicators or the ender4/tronxy s5x, but has independent xy movement AND stationary motors. Too bad I'm too broke to build it.

Nicholas's Helios definitely looks cool. I just worry about rigidity with that arm swinging around at full extension and I feel like there would be significant sagging from the cantilever. That being said, SCARA arms offer enormous print volumes for their size/cost. I was sort of looking forward to a one arm SCARA using the simpson geometry he teased a while ago. That and the sextuperon.

[iamthebest22]

@Trakyan ah okay so the Tronxy X5S is a CoreXY while the Ender 4 is a Hbot. The link you provided just told me Permission denied, but I managed to find it, thanks for the help now I now how to differentiate between the two. Well now the choice is somewhat less harder because the first sale price for the Ender 4 ended, and now it's only about $100 USD cheaper than the X5S. The Ender-4 also lack part cooling fan and only single Z axis, but has pretty much everything else (might get a mosfet though). The X5S has more bells and whistles (dual Z axis, bigger print volume even more than Tornado or Cr-10). The problem with the X5S is you very likely need to get a new Power supply and a heated bed, as the one they gave apparently takes almost 20 minutes to reach 60 Celsius. Honestly, if I was to follow my guideline of collect every type, I would go Ender-4, since that's a Hb0t and I have a Hypercube Evolution that's a CoreXY being build, in addition I really don't need the huge build volume, I'll leave that to the Cr-10 and the Tornado that I'm buying soon (Also because I don't have the space for another huge printer :P). Think that's a good choice?

Yeah I was worried about the sagging from that part too.

[Trakyan]

From what I understand HBot and coreXY are very similar and have the same(?) kinematics. The difference being coreXY uses longer belts to route them in a way so the moments from the belt tension during movements cancel out. On an HBot they don't cancel and this can cause the frame to twist. With bigger frames without any extra reinforcing like the ender 4, this twisting is going to be even more noticeable. I personally see coreXY as the V2 of HBots.

As for your concerns with the bed not getting up to temp, you should only have to replace the power supply. The bed can in all likely hood heat up to the temperatures you want, but the power supply can't provide enough power. That being said, I'd try insulating the bottom of the heat bed (cork mats and even foil wrapped on the bottom work to some degree) and other possible fixes before messing with the power supply and heat bed.

[DaveB]

...I'd try insulating the bottom of the heat bed (cork mats and even foil wrapped on the bottom work to some degree) and other possible fixes before messing with the power supply and heat bed.

Here's an alternative to cork, and also some high temperature adhesive to hold it in place. Seems to work quite well on my QiDi Tech 1.
Note: The pads are called "cottons" but are apparently not made of cotton. It is easily cut with scissors and the seller states that it's not flammable. When I tried burning a small piece on my gas stove it does slowly turn to ash, smells ugly, but does not sustain a flame.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4pcs-Reprap-...s/252851142217
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002UEOPA

[iamthebest22]

Yeah this is a really tough choice for me. I know that CoreXY is V2 of Hbot, and I pretty in that case would just go why not get the better version, and the FB group for the Ender-4, people say that Creality has horrid customer support, and some people are getting oval prints when trying to do circles, which seems like they didn't build it 90 degrees exactly etc and some quality issue, though I don't know . You're right, don't need another bed just a stronger power supply and maybe the cork and the "cotton" which I do have. I'm wondering if I should just save that money and get a resin printer, because that's my next step, to learn Resin (Tevo Firefly, Wanhao D7, Anycubic Photon are all options). Both the Ender 4 and X5S has their pros and cons, so hard to decide >.<

[Trakyan]

The oval issue could be from an hbot design that isnt stiff enough. Like i mentioned hbots have a tendancy to rack and put torque on the frame so it might twist out of square if its not rigid enough. The aluminium extrusions dont look stiff enough to resist racking on a printer that size. Or it could be a belt tension issue, hard to say without seeing pictures of the bad prints.

Im not surprised by the customer support, chinese manufacturers arent known for after sales support and creality would have been swamped after the cr-10 got popular. Anyways, if you want something different to the printers you've got, a resin printer fits the bill better than the ebder or s5x. That being said, know what youre getting into with resin printing. It stinks, shelf life is short and you're mostly stuck with acrylic like resins. Great for looking pretty, otherwise maybe not.

[iamthebest22]

Yep, and more and more people are saying after a few weeks or a month or so, their Ender is printing out ovals. In addition, there is a big coupon code that let's me get the X5S for only 60 bucks more expensive than the Ender-4, win win right there. Well not all Chinese there are some exceptions like Anycubic has been pretty good, but their Deltas sign... Anyways. I think what I'm going to do is (almost 100% certain) is (I plan to get a printer every month until December, then stop there) get the Tevo Tornado in the next few days, then next month the X5S (to wait for reviews and also finish up my Hypercube Evo) then start looking at the Resin more (been following resin and doing research and such) and purchase my first Resin printer in November, followed by another one in December (hopeful sales? XD). I think that sounds good, though do advise me if you think that's not a good idea.

[Trakyan]

Well, if you can afford it, by all means? Might I ask what you'll use them all for? You mentioned printing for friends, the only requests I've had was from a friend of mine wanting a phone case.

[iamthebest22]

My 3d printer room in the basement:
TEVO tornado will go under the shelf with the wood board on it, may install an enclosure to block out dust cause it's so near the floor. Hypercube once I build it probably on the middle of the shelf.




@Trakyan sorry for late reply, been busy of late working. I plan on designing stuff and selling it online or 3Dhubs and since I'm an instrumentalist, lots of instruments parts work well on PLA or PETG, so I will also go that route.

I will also start posting my work on the Hypercube Evolution here, that's where the extrusions you see below the i3 mega and the kossel are there for, waiting for one extrusion that was slightly bent.