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  1. #11
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    Makerfarm Prusa 8" i3v

    I got mine on Saturday (4/5/14) and am about half way through assembly and set-up.

    For your enclosure, consider the option that you MIGHT eventually want to increase the Y axis with longer tracks, a longer belt, bigger platform (and heated bed), and Y carriage.

    Given that, maybe go with just a large box enclosure minus the slant on the front. Maybe instead go for doors on the sides, held in place by magnets?

  2. #12
    Super Moderator RobH2's Avatar
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    It's coming along and looking good. The only thing I see that might cause a problem is that the hinged door doesn't look like it will fold back and lie on the top when you open it. It looks like the too/rear edge will hit the top surface when the door is a little past horizontal. It will be awkward to have to hold it or to create something to hold it up. Plus you'll have to reach under it all the time when going "in." I think a piano hinge might be a better plan for the front door. That way you can open it and lay it back on the top surface, out of the way.

    You bring up something I've wondered about. If you have a fan pulling air through, even slowly, wouldn't be drawing a draft through the housing? That's what you are trying to prevent to minimize part warping. I don't have a housing and have never used one but I have wondered about it as I consider designing my own housing. Even passive venting at the top somewhere invites a draft because as the warm air exits, something is coming in from somewhere to replace it. I'd imagine that the "something" is cold air from around the bottom edges which are open. Maybe it's not a problem to have a small draft if the bulk of the air inside is nice and warm. I'd be happy to hear from someone who knows the answer.

    Personally, I'd rather spend the extra money and have a view from the side. But, it's not necessary. There are times though as I watch a print that I move from side to side to see the area I need to. I can't always tell from the front if things are going well. Also, it can get pretty dark in there. The clear sides will let a bit more light in. Even with no housing I use a flashlight sometimes to view my prints. If the cost of the extra acrylic is just too much for you then you at least put two small, hinged metal doors on either side. At least you could then raise one and peek in for a few seconds.

    Nice looking though. Post finished photos...
    Bambu P1S/AMS
    NVision4D http://nvision4d.com

  3. #13
    Engineer-in-Training gmay3's Avatar
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    1stage, thanks for the suggestion, I hadn't thought of that!

    Quote Originally Posted by RobH2 View Post
    It's coming along and looking good. The only thing I see that might cause a problem is that the hinged door doesn't look like it will fold back and lie on the top when you open it. It looks like the too/rear edge will hit the top surface when the door is a little past horizontal. It will be awkward to have to hold it or to create something to hold it up. Plus you'll have to reach under it all the time when going "in." I think a piano hinge might be a better plan for the front door. That way you can open it and lay it back on the top surface, out of the way.
    RobH2, thanks for your reply. After some research at Lowe's I actually did replace the two hinges with one single piano hinge in a more current drawing.

    I want to apologize for the quality of the drawing pictures, I don't think it makes the door movement too obvious. Currently I see the action of the door movement in 2 steps:

    1. Pull the door up so that it is level with the top of the enclosure (parallel to the ground). This will be achieved by the piano hinge.

    2. Push the door straight back to the back of the enclosure so the handle ends up in the place the hinge used to be. The piano hinge is mounted on a flat maybe 2" long sheet of wood or acrylic, I'm calling this piece "The Sled" and it's red in the previous screen shot of my drawing. The Sled will be resting on the top of the enclosure and will be held down by an L shaped pieced of wood or acrylic which will allow the sled to travel smoothly (hopefully) without lifting off the top of the enclosure. The sled will travel on the top from the front of the enclosure to the back of the enclosure.

    So the final resting place of the door will be on top of the enclosure and to close the door again, I would pull the door so the sled is back in the front completely. Then I would lower the door using the hinge once its back in position.

    Yes, I'm not sure about the venting part of the case. I think I'll try it (FOR SCIENCE!) but if anyone has experience with this it would much appreciated. It would be much easier to seal it up while printing, and I could always wait until the print is done until turning on the fume extraction fan. I think that might work?

    I'm still trying to think about where to put the RAMPS and LCD if I put them outside of the case. Think think think. And the location of the spool, I'm thinking on the side, mounted so that the flat side of the spool would be parallel to the side of the enclosure to save space.
    Last edited by gmay3; 04-09-2014 at 07:14 AM.

  4. #14
    Super Moderator RobH2's Avatar
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    I see how the door works now. Nice solution, I like it.

    If you put your electronics outside the enclosure then you'll have to address how to lift the enclosure off of the printer. The wires will all have to run to the bottom edge and out. What's the issue with leaving the board inside in it's normal place? The elevated heat isn't going to affect anything. Electronics can generally operate at pretty warm temps without issue. That way all you have is one bundle of wires running out to the Power Supply.

    I like your experiment for "Science." Nice...

    Think hard about and test the filament location. You don't want the extruder to be pulling on the filament too hard because it will lift your hot end. If the spool is on the side the filament will be being pulled sideways over the edge of the spool and there will be added friction. The filament works best when if freely travels from the spool straight to the extruder without any turns or without touching anything. A rod above the case hanging from the ceiling or mounted to and offset from a wall might we worth exploring. You don't want that extruder to have to tug on the filament any more than it already has to. If the spool is turned 90-degrees and the feed direction points towards the center of the enclosure that might just work. You'll still have to address the turn because you have to go up high enough to then come down through a hole over the extruder.

    This would change your design and add cost but what about having the enclosure high enough so that the spool could be inside over the printer? That would have the added benefit of drying the filament out while it prints from the heat. We all know that while we are printing for several days in a row our filament is sitting there sucking in moisture. Then we have to eventually go dry the stuff. What if the act of printing was actually a filament dryer at the same time? Not a bad idea to at least pursue.

    Looking forward to seeing your final resolution.
    Bambu P1S/AMS
    NVision4D http://nvision4d.com

  5. #15
    Engineer-in-Training gmay3's Avatar
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    Thanks!

    I was initially worried about heat and the electronics and stepper motors but maybe that won't be an issue after all. I think its going to help a lot once I get my printer fully assembled and start printing!

    Understood about the filament spool. I'll have to rethink about what to do. Unfortunately I am restricted in space where I'm going to be putting the printer and I only have about 2 to 3 inches above the top of the i3v's LCD housing. I'm putting the printer under a shelf that's a little lower than I'd like. I'm renting a house right now or else that would not be a problem.

    There is a chance I would be able to mount the filament spool above the printer enclosure in the shelf above it. The solution to this problem might just be that I need to move the shelf up.

    I didn't know filament had an issue with moisture. What effect does it have? Do you store your filaments in an airtight container when its not in use?
    Last edited by gmay3; 09-25-2014 at 02:22 PM.

  6. #16
    Super Moderator RobH2's Avatar
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    I do store my filaments is a 5-gallon bucket that has desiccant in it to absorb moisture. The bucket is a Gamma Lid (look at them on Amazon). I have a professional hygrometer in there and it stays around 1.5% humidity. It might be lower but hygrometers have a hard time measuring really low humility. You don't need the meter. I already had it so I put it to good use.

    How I actually store each roll is like this. I purchased some 9" x 6" mesh bags and 5 lbs. of commercial desiccant It looks like translucent blue plastic BB's. It's neat and clean because it doesn't create powder or break up. When it's full of water it turns clear and that's a nice indicator. You just bake it in the oven for an hour and it's ready to go again. I put a few cups of desiccant in the mesh bag and close it off. Then I put one of those mesh bags in a 2-gallon Ziploc with the filament and squeeze out excess air. That way the desiccant is only removing moisture from a small amount of air. It's more efficient that way and keeps me from having to dryout my reusable desiccant all the time. Then, I put 3 or 4 rolls, each in their own Ziploc (along with desiccant mesh bag) into the bucket. The bottom of the bucket has one of those mesh bags too that it pulls the moisture out of the bucket air. What this does is allow me to open the bucket and remove any filament I need without adding any moist air to the other rolls because they are all individually protected. Then when I close it, the only work that has to be done is for that mesh bag in the bottom of the bucket to remove the moisture in the air again. It may be overkill but it's really simple and easy so why not? It seems to work because I've had no jams since I got my printer and no moisture issues.

    I've always had this setup so I've never had moisture problems. Before I got my printer I was reading alot about them. I kept reading that the filaments absorb moisture and people were going through all kinds of repeated "oven drying" cycles to keep the filament dry. Apparently too much moisture in the filament causes gassing, pops and jams. I've never had any I think due to my initial decision to store in a dry space. Someone else will have to talk about the problems associated with moisture because I have never had to deal with it. Apparently, ABS is really a sponge. Nylon and Pet+ are not as bad from what I read.

    Can you mount a rod inside the cabinet above, crack the door and have the filament spool out from in there? That actually seems kind of cool really.

    I'll be on the lookout for someone else to talk knowledgeably about what a headed enclosure does to stepper motors and RAMPS. I'm just speculating as I don't have an enclosure. So, get some second opinions. But my sense is that you'll be OK. It's not going to get 300-degrees in there. I think if you had a passive (and you do already) vent in the top to let warm air escape, then that's all you need to do and it won't get too hot. You just want it warm enough to cancel out cold drafts that exacerbate warps.
    Bambu P1S/AMS
    NVision4D http://nvision4d.com

  7. #17
    Engineer-in-Training gmay3's Avatar
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    Oh wow, I didn't realize that humidity could cause jams. I think I'll try to have a setup similar to that I think it will be easier than trying to fit the spool in the enclosure. Plus if I have more than one spool I'll need to keep them dry anyway!

    The shelf above my printer is very "homemade" by someone that is not skilled at making things lol. I think some pictures are in order to show you what I'm working with!

  8. #18
    Super Moderator RobH2's Avatar
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    You know what they say: "A picture is worth a 1000 posts." Well, "they" may not say it, but I do...
    Bambu P1S/AMS
    NVision4D http://nvision4d.com

  9. #19
    Engineer-in-Training gmay3's Avatar
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    Ok so UPDATE, I have removed the shelf so I have about 1 to 1.5 feet of room above the printer. This will allow a redesign to include a spool above the printer. This is gonna be painful to my 3d models but I'll have to redraw them anyway. Here's my plan.

    1. Raise the ceiling height of the printer enclosure. This will allow for more room for the spool. I'm currently thinking of having the spool in the "hamburger" orientation. (spool sides parallel to the ground)

    2. Lower the air duct section to approximately the middle of the back wall of the enclosure. (lower it to allow space for the spool.)

    3. Create a "box" around the spool on the inside of the enclosure to support a spool holder and allow the filament to be guided out to the extruder at a controlled "friendly" angle. Add a lid to the top of the spool box to allow for easy removal and swapping.

    Questions:

    Should I drill holes in the bottom of the spool box (like the air duct) so that the hot air is able to dry out the spool while printing? Or, should I seal the box as much as possible (except for the filament hole) and add some desiccants to the spool box.

    Are spools of filament a standard size for the most part? Could I use my 2.2kg makerfarm spool as a standard dimension for any old spool? (I know there are larger spools that are "double-wide" for lack of a better term. I don't think I would plan on using that much plastic at the moment and would rather have a variety of smaller spools.)

  10. #20
    Super Moderator RobH2's Avatar
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    Sounds like you are making progress. The way to think about 3d modeling and design is never worry that you have to change your design or 3d model. As you get better and faster at modeling it won't be such a big issue. It's much easier to change a 3d model than to build a new housing so get it right before you start cutting anything. I've had designs where I've rebuilt the 3d model a dozen times to get it right. It's hard to be patient when you are excited to get to building but you'll be glad you did if you work out the details before you start making the housing.

    You'll need to try to get some other advice here besides mine too but here are my thoughts:

    1. I don't think "hamburger" orientation is good. The filament sometimes expands out on the spool and if the spool is on it's side many turns will fall off and make a jumbled mess. Secondly, the spool on it's side will have a lot of friction unless you get very involved and build turntable or something with smooth bearings in it. The spool really needs to be vertical with a horizontal rod through the spool hole so the filament can be easily pulled from the roll.

    2. Lowering the air duct sounds like it won't cause any issues.

    3. I think you are making things too complex here. It's likely that you'll be swapping filament out as you use different colors or types. It's easy to swap filament so I'd say make the box simple for now. Then a few months from now you are going to have a handful of "things I wish I'd done" concerning the housing. That always happens, and you'll want to modify the housing or build a new one to incorporate your new ideas.

    You know, this is not what you are thinking but maybe you are getting the cart before the horse. Why not print for awhile without a housing? You don't need it right away. It will make getting in to tweak and calibrate cumbersome. Sure, you can always lift it and set it off to the side but why not get the process worked out first and then attack the box when you know the workflow you like. You might be glad you did. I don't have a housing at all and I bought my printer last year. I get a warp now and then but so far the problems have not been severe enough for me to invest the time and money into a housing. I know it's the way to go but for now, I'm ok. I think you might find that's it's prudent to wait, at least until you have the machine calibrated and working consistently well.

    Finally, filament comes on all kinds and sizes of spools. You can never know what it comes on. There is some industry chatter to standardize the spools but it has not gotten much traction yet. So if you build a spool box, do some research and figure out what the largest spools are and make sure that fits.
    Bambu P1S/AMS
    NVision4D http://nvision4d.com

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