Severe Delamination Help

Nope... not the prints.

The heated bed is delaminating. More like chipping.

So I moved a few months ago, and repacked the printer back into it's original box, foam and all. While moving it on a hand truck, the girlfriend accidentally dumped it. It was a gentle fall, but these things don't need to be dropped!

After setting it (Davinci 1.0) back up in the new place, first print was fine. Second print though, a shard of glass stuck to the print. Not a triangular piece of broken glass, but like a chip. The glass looks fine, until a piece falls off. Now I have pushing a dozen various small chips in the glass bed, which is heated and adhered to the heating elements.

For now, I am using blue painters tape to line the bed and bridge the pot holes, and since my prints don't stick to that worth a damn, I use glue stick on top of that. And then I have issues getting the tape off the print.

Eventually a new bed will be ordered, but of course, it's an XYZ debacle to get one, since I have to buy the whole unit, just not new glass, wires to the board and everything.

So here's the kicker and the question. My workshop is now unheated, and since I moved and been printing, it's cold in here. The printer is self contained, and I close off the top vent to keep the warm air in the printer. Before I go buy a new bed, is the environment I'm printing in causing the glass issues, or is it from the fall or a couple years of gently whacking at it with a scraper? I have plans to move it inside once I build a desk and work station for it, but I don't want to replace the glass now, and have it repeat because of the cold.

Surprised nobody has any ideas here....

It's you whacking at it with a scraper. You need to let the bed cool fully. With a non-removable bed it will take forever but that comes with the territory when you buy them like that. The cold environment is not good for printing in general. Move it somewhere warm and stable or rig up an enclosure with a hair drier and a thermostat.

as long as the heating is working, if I were you I'd put a sheet of Printbite on top.
Just about 1mm thick. And then you don't need to bother with scrapers or tape or glue. Cheaper than a replacement sheet of glass and a lot more useful.

It might be heat shock. If you're starting with a really cold piece of glass and suddenly warming it unevenly with resistance wire that's embedded in the sub-plate, you could be setting up thermal stresses that the glass can't handle. You might try warming it gently with a heat gun set on low before turning it on.

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com

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Originally Posted by awerby

It might be heat shock. If you're starting with a really cold piece of glass and suddenly warming it unevenly with resistance wire that's embedded in the sub-plate, you could be setting up thermal stresses that the glass can't handle. You might try warming it gently with a heat gun set on low before turning it on.

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com

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Yup, that makes sense. I'lk try prewarming from now on. And I'll look into that printbite.

You really don't need printbite with glass. Glass is way more versatile than printbite is. ABS does not fair well with printbite and it's expensive for what it is. You can use blue painters tape (PLA), Kapton (ABS) , glue stick (my favorite so far), Hairspray or ABS slurry. The glue and hairspray work well and wash off the plate easily.

You really miss the point of printbite.
No tape, glue or slurry needed - ever again !
Abs sticks fine even on my open frame machine. It's still crap, but it sticks fine. Maybe you don't understand the material and how to use it ?

I understand the material and how to use it. It's well documented around the web that it requires heated build plate temps of 120C and higher to get a good bond with larger ABS parts and they release at temps around 80C which is not conducive to preventing warping during the cooling process.

Despite your opinion of ABS being crap there is a huge following for it beyond people making things off of thingyverse and other art/toy projects. I do think it's amusing that you state that it works on ABS in an open printer when you refuse to use ABS, and most of the community will tell you ABS is hit and miss not enclosed. So how did you come to that conclusion?

My point is that a glue stick takes about 10-20 seconds to apply. A large stick costs $2us and goes a long way. Versatility of glass is the best option available today. When you get outside the sheltered area of this board and on some of the larger sites this is by far and away the most popular option.

popular doesn't mean best.
I use gluesticks for certain things. Mainly filaments that don't release from printbite. And yes it's easy and cheap.
But the printbite, you just print and remove when done. It never needs scrapers, no delicate part ever breaks when you are fighting the release and one sheet should last the lifetime of the printer.

If you print with anything other than abs (and on an open frame printer, you most likely will be) on an enclosed printer - which I'm getting the impression you never do.
Then printbite is about as close to perfect as you can currently get.

I'm assuming you haven't used it and are just going on the opinions of those like yourself who are locked into abs and have enclosed machines.

I base my knowlege primarily on what I've used and tried and Therefore I know it works. Not just regurgitating someone elses opnions.
No alternative facts :-)

I've been using printbite for around a year, after trying every other option out there.
These days, while I still have to play with settings for new materials - for stuff I've used before, I just print and go.
I don't need to ever prepare or repair my print surface.
I don't have any release hassles. If impatient I use a gentle tap to release the part.
If not around when the print finishes, I just pick it up when i get back to the workshop.
It is that easy.

So far I've managed to print almost all materials at 60c bed temp and pet-g at 70.
Pretty sure the abs I tested was only at 70 as well. And it did work - just stinks and doesn't laminate properly on an open frame printer.

Some nylon filaments and a couple flexible ones stick too well to printbite, so get printed on the other machine on pva.

My sole failure to date is polycarbonate. And After talking to the guys from polymaker, who made it, it's mainly because I just can't get my hotend up high enough and I don't have enclosed print volume.

Everything else has either stuck and released or stuck and laughed at me when i asked it to release.
Given that the mymat nylon needed releasing with an actual hammer and chisel - and the printbite is unmarked - I'd say that's good evidence it's pretty hard wearing.

BY all means give advice on things you've actually used - but being negative on something you have no experience of doesn't help anyone.

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Originally Posted by curious aardvark

no delicate part ever breaks when you are fighting the release

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I never ever fight to get a part released and that seems to be the norm for most that use glass. The Freezer and they fall off without any pressure if that ever becomes an issue.

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Originally Posted by curious aardvark

If you print with anything other than abs (and on an open frame printer, you most likely will be) on an enclosed printer - which I'm getting the impression you never do.

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Ahhhhh the impression... Silly boy. Leaving the front door wide open and the top off is pretty much there with an open system which I use for PLA and PETG. Another fail on your end.

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Originally Posted by curious aardvark

I'm assuming you haven't used it and are just going on the opinions of those like yourself who are locked into abs and have enclosed machines.

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Another swing and a miss. I do use PLA, PETG, HIPS, PVA, and Nylon. I have tried TPE's and TPU's (friend works for a company that makes TPU's and gives me free samples to try and report back) I just don't have a use for them.

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Originally Posted by curious aardvark

I base my knowlege primarily on what I've used and tried and Therefore I know it works. Not just regurgitating someone elses opnions.

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Hmmm... A sample size of one... Yourself. While regurgitating without experience is a bad practice listening to others and trying to replicate it on your own gives you a broader view on things instead living in your parents basement relying solely on your own opinions.

Something to think about. I know you've called me a nerd in the past but surely you can grasp this.
"Sample size determination is the act of choosing the number of observations or replicates to include in a statistical sample. The sample size is an important feature of any empirical study in which the goal is to make inferences about a population from a sample."

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Originally Posted by curious aardvark

No alternative facts :-)

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None here. We leave the political banter to the liberal/progresive mess to talk about.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by curious aardvark

If impatient I use a gentle tap to release the part.

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Great if you like leveling your bed often.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by curious aardvark

Everything else has either stuck and released or stuck and laughed at me when i asked it to release.

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Sorry about your luck there..... Glass in the freezer and it's off in 10 minutes with a stubborn print :-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by curious aardvark

BY all means give advice on things you've actually used - but being negative on something you have no experience of doesn't help anyone.

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I am not being negative. I am offering a rebuttal to your one trick pony. I take issues with you because you have to chime in on everything as the "all knowing" You give advise on engineering material/geometry related topics where you are completely unqualified. How is that helping anyone?

My bed right now looks like a mine field, I HAVE to use some layer over the glass. Printbite seems to have such good reviews, I'm game to try it, especially at the price, compared to getting a new bed.

Glue stick has been my goto for years now, but I have to try something different.

Sigh............... I've never seen glass break apart... and raise up.......

My glass bed is filled with pot holes. I need to span those gaps. CA's advice seems to be a perfect solution.

You seem to assume that ALL printer's work like yours, that you can easily remove the glass and throw it into a freezer. Even if I had a freezer empty enough (A full household of kids kinda prevents this) to place my print into, the labor of completely disassembling the case of the printer, disassembling the Z axis, unplugging the bed from the board, placing that in a freezer, removing the print, reassembling the Z axis, plugging it back in, reassembling the case, is kind of a pain in the ass.

If you want to be helpful, make sure to read the OP's, and then respond constructively to that. CA offered a very viable, and CHEAP, solution to my problem. Not one of your comments was any help at all.

Sorry... You are right. I missed the reference to the specific printer that you were using.

And, if you look outside your window, you'll understand part of my problem, I'm a NEO'er too. I really don't have room inside my place to run this thing, but the unheated 3 car garage has become my workshop. Aside from me, finishes and glues, it's the only real thing that's cold sensitive.

If this sheet works, then I'm a happy camper, and I'll start prewarming the enclosure.