Choosing a Cartesian style printer under $500 CAD ($400 USD)

So with my recent shenanigans on Delta printers, I'm just holding off on them for a while and going back to Cartesians. Right now I have 3 printers (Cr-10, Anycubic i3 Mega, Monoprice Select Mini), and had bought the deltas cause I need 5 in total, but that didn't work out and I'm running out of patience. Right now I have a Hypercube Evolution DIY kit in the room beside me, but may hold back on that for a little bit. I'm looking for a, as the title says, a Cartesian style printer that is not a kit, doesn't have to come fully assembled, but can be put together already in a short time (like 1 hour-2 hours max because i'm really busy now with teaching) for around $400 USD. Build size needs to be at least 200 x 200 x 200, though I am willing to make compromises if necessary. Also requires heated bed and can be manually leveled.Thanks.

EDIT: Change this to be my growing printers thread because I didn't want to create another thread just for this purpose. Thank you again though to those who helped me choose the printers.

no brainer: wanhao i3 duplicator plus.
monoprice branded for less money: https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Mak...lct+3d+rinters

It is weird - my experience with deltas has compeltely moved me over to the delta camp.
That said - I never bothered to try and tackle topographical 'levelling'.

Deltas are faster, quieter, considerably less inclined to prints detaching part way through. Print quality is at least as good as cartesians.
Plus they look a lot cooler :-)
Also much easier to build and mechanically troubleshoot.

But you do need a build plate you can level mechanically.
That whole non-auto levelling doesn't look like fun.

Well it seems like there might be something wrong with my BLtouch, it's a legit one, but we'll know for sure later, I am going to try out UBL instead of Bilinear and see what happens. I will nevertheless print the leveling knobs for it anyways.

xD the Wanhao Duplicator i3 Plus was the first thing that came to mind! though it's 200 x 200 x 180, that 180mm. Any other suggestions? Just want to know before I officially choose the i3 Plus.

at that price and not a kit - don't think anything else has larger build volume. Most ready built around that price are 150x150x150
Or replicator clones at 225x150x150

For anything larger it'd need to be a kit.

My other option I was thinking would be the Cr-10 Mini, though single Z axis.... https://www.banggood.com/Creality-3D...8aAtkJEALw_wcB
and that table mount doesn't seem very stiff.... Hmmm

alright well I think I'll go with the Wanhao Duplicator i3 plus, really want Dual Z axis, where's a good spot to buy one in Canada? Aliexpress, 3d print store?

Dude, you reminded, I almost forgot, how about this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...822624323.html 95% assembled. I was originally thinking of the Black Widow after you mentioned after that it'll be DIY kits, then I suddenly remembered that the Tornado just released. What do you think?

True True, I only remembered that because of that, never tried TEVO before and thought this might be a good chance to do so. We'll see. Might get one first then the other one later, just gotta decide which one to get first...

looks good, go for it :-)

200mm/s print speed - yeah right. :-)

so why do you need 5 printers ?

Going to in my spare time learn more about 3d printing. Alot of my friends (online and real life) want me to print for them etc. Little extra income. Also I have an OCD when it comes to collecting stuff I'm interested xD I want a 3d printer of every major type. So basically Core XY [Hypercube Evolution (I know it's technically cartesian), Prusa i3 type (Cr-10, i3 Mega, Tornado?), Delta (was gonna be the Anycubic kossel, but that went well, maybe the TEVO little monster once I save up for that).

Than the experimental territory ones, SCARA type, the RepRap Helios.

Think what I'll do is get the TEVO Tornado later this month, than the Duplicator i3 Plus end of next month (I really want to try out direct drive extruders).

don't forget the upside down delta.
Can't remember what it was actually called - there is a thread around somewhere.
Reverse delta ?

Oh the one by the same guy? the GUS Simpson RepRap? Thought development stopped on that one.

That's it !
Inverted delta: http://3dprintboard.com/showthread.p...hlight=simpson

Nicjolas has stopped developement on the GUS Simpson (for now) but that doesn't stop others from having a crack. I started that other thread since I'm doing a redesign.

My initial timeline was (horribly) optimistic and I've had issues in life distracting me. Since I'm working in openscadHappy I've decided to make the machine fully parametric and easily tweakable. to announce though that I've finally managed to derive all the dimensions for the machine using just one input from the user. All you need to do it tell it the diameter of the printbed you want. From there all other parts are optimized to be as small as possible. You can still easily tweak all the settings and dimensions for the machine manually if you need more space somewhere or something, but I wanted to make things easy for anyone who isnt familiar with openscad or doesnt want to fret over the small details.

Sorry to derail the thread, I just figured the OP might be interested for his collection of printers

Definitely - and congratulations on the scad script.
Always fun trying to make something fully parametric. I tend to find that excessively large or small numbers always do something 'interesting' :-)

Haha, you're right, big numbers do interesting things, so the script isn't bulletproof. However, that's why I have "WARNING: common(?) sense required for tuning these parameters!" at the top of the script. :p Ohh. and parametric modeling is why I got hooked on openscad, that and using graphical modelers like fusion360 and freecad never really worked for me, and when you do something like "ohh, I'll go from M8 to M5 bolts" and realize you need to dig through all the sketches and re-dimension every bolt hole...

That being said I haven't had it break by just asking it for a big machine in a while, now it usually just breaks if parts don't physically make sense, like if you ask for a 10mm wide hole in a 5mm wide object, or if you don't give things enough clearance. Another one I've spent too much time debugging is when I change related parameters in a way that doesn't make sense. I've added a block of code to help troubleshoot problems, tell you what's going wrong and what you can do to fix it.

Anyways, to add something to the topic at hand. My two cents is that with i3 style printers, bigger isn't always better. They're moving the bed around, and as you scale up the printer that gets to be a lot of mass, which limits your accelerations and therefore your print speeds. However, if you need big, by all means go big.

Another thing, don't let the type or configuration of extruder be the deciding factor in your purchase. The extruder often is the easiest part to modify, change or replace on any 3d printer so don't get too hung up on the stock set up.

I don't mind trying that too, glad to see you still working on it! I'm also following his newest SCARA project, RepRap HELIOS, but that looks like he's too busy to work on it, 4 months since last update (he said he would do something at end of August or beginning of Sept, but nothing so far). Right yeah I've learned that, so I may just ignore the Wanhao and go for the Tevo Tornado and then the new Creality Ender-4 (It's more of a H-Bot/D-bot? than a CoreXY is what people are telling me.

Update: seems like Tronxy is releasing what looks like a Hbot type like the Ender 4 but bigger and more expensive but seems to be similar. https://www.gearbest.com/3d-printers...W8.oaB6kkil.bA Again I know I'm getting the TEVO tornado for sure, just looking at now whether a Ender 4 or the new Tronxy S5X (Ender is about 40% cheaper though)

looks good, certainly more stability than an i3 :-)

The Tronxy Ender 4 doesn't look like an Hbot to me. If you look opposite where the XY motors are mounted (pic #3 shows it well), the belt is run from one y rail to the other (basically, parrallel to the x rail). Look at this image of the various movement systems.
http://forums.reprap.org/file.php?397,file=84671
The HBot does not have the belts routed in this way (it would be along the top edge in those images), whereas the coreXY does. So I reckon it's coreXY. That ender 4 however does look like an HBot since it lacks the belt routing I mentioned earlier (the belts make an H, which is I think where it got the name. coreXY printers make a blocky A or an H with a cap on the top).

Personally I've got an idea for a Cartesian printer that has stationary XY motors, but each motor only controls one axis, so it's easier to calibrate than coreXY where they are coupled. The ultimaker geometry achieves this but uses more linear rods and ends up having a fair bit of moving mass (having to rotate the two smooth rods and then translate the third just to move one axis.). The design I have in mind has a typical H shaped gantry like the makerbot replicators or the ender4/tronxy s5x, but has independent xy movement AND stationary motors. Too bad I'm too broke to build it.

Nicholas's Helios definitely looks cool. I just worry about rigidity with that arm swinging around at full extension and I feel like there would be significant sagging from the cantilever. That being said, SCARA arms offer enormous print volumes for their size/cost. I was sort of looking forward to a one arm SCARA using the simpson geometry he teased a while ago. That and the sextuperon.

@Trakyan ah okay so the Tronxy X5S is a CoreXY while the Ender 4 is a Hbot. The link you provided just told me Permission denied, but I managed to find it, thanks for the help now I now how to differentiate between the two. Well now the choice is somewhat less harder because the first sale price for the Ender 4 ended, and now it's only about $100 USD cheaper than the X5S. The Ender-4 also lack part cooling fan and only single Z axis, but has pretty much everything else (might get a mosfet though). The X5S has more bells and whistles (dual Z axis, bigger print volume even more than Tornado or Cr-10). The problem with the X5S is you very likely need to get a new Power supply and a heated bed, as the one they gave apparently takes almost 20 minutes to reach 60 Celsius. Honestly, if I was to follow my guideline of collect every type, I would go Ender-4, since that's a Hb0t and I have a Hypercube Evolution that's a CoreXY being build, in addition I really don't need the huge build volume, I'll leave that to the Cr-10 and the Tornado that I'm buying soon (Also because I don't have the space for another huge printer :P). Think that's a good choice?

Yeah I was worried about the sagging from that part too.

From what I understand HBot and coreXY are very similar and have the same(?) kinematics. The difference being coreXY uses longer belts to route them in a way so the moments from the belt tension during movements cancel out. On an HBot they don't cancel and this can cause the frame to twist. With bigger frames without any extra reinforcing like the ender 4, this twisting is going to be even more noticeable. I personally see coreXY as the V2 of HBots.

As for your concerns with the bed not getting up to temp, you should only have to replace the power supply. The bed can in all likely hood heat up to the temperatures you want, but the power supply can't provide enough power. That being said, I'd try insulating the bottom of the heat bed (cork mats and even foil wrapped on the bottom work to some degree) and other possible fixes before messing with the power supply and heat bed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trakyan

...I'd try insulating the bottom of the heat bed (cork mats and even foil wrapped on the bottom work to some degree) and other possible fixes before messing with the power supply and heat bed.

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Here's an alternative to cork, and also some high temperature adhesive to hold it in place. Seems to work quite well on my QiDi Tech 1.
Note: The pads are called "cottons" but are apparently not made of cotton. It is easily cut with scissors and the seller states that it's not flammable. When I tried burning a small piece on my gas stove it does slowly turn to ash, smells ugly, but does not sustain a flame.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4pcs-Reprap-...s/252851142217
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002UEOPA

Yeah this is a really tough choice for me. I know that CoreXY is V2 of Hbot, and I pretty in that case would just go why not get the better version, and the FB group for the Ender-4, people say that Creality has horrid customer support, and some people are getting oval prints when trying to do circles, which seems like they didn't build it 90 degrees exactly etc and some quality issue, though I don't know . You're right, don't need another bed just a stronger power supply and maybe the cork and the "cotton" which I do have. I'm wondering if I should just save that money and get a resin printer, because that's my next step, to learn Resin (Tevo Firefly, Wanhao D7, Anycubic Photon are all options). Both the Ender 4 and X5S has their pros and cons, so hard to decide >.<

The oval issue could be from an hbot design that isnt stiff enough. Like i mentioned hbots have a tendancy to rack and put torque on the frame so it might twist out of square if its not rigid enough. The aluminium extrusions dont look stiff enough to resist racking on a printer that size. Or it could be a belt tension issue, hard to say without seeing pictures of the bad prints.

Im not surprised by the customer support, chinese manufacturers arent known for after sales support and creality would have been swamped after the cr-10 got popular. Anyways, if you want something different to the printers you've got, a resin printer fits the bill better than the ebder or s5x. That being said, know what youre getting into with resin printing. It stinks, shelf life is short and you're mostly stuck with acrylic like resins. Great for looking pretty, otherwise maybe not.

Yep, and more and more people are saying after a few weeks or a month or so, their Ender is printing out ovals. In addition, there is a big coupon code that let's me get the X5S for only 60 bucks more expensive than the Ender-4, win win right there. Well not all Chinese there are some exceptions like Anycubic has been pretty good, but their Deltas sign... Anyways. I think what I'm going to do is (almost 100% certain) is (I plan to get a printer every month until December, then stop there) get the Tevo Tornado in the next few days, then next month the X5S (to wait for reviews and also finish up my Hypercube Evo) then start looking at the Resin more (been following resin and doing research and such) and purchase my first Resin printer in November, followed by another one in December (hopeful sales? XD). I think that sounds good, though do advise me if you think that's not a good idea.

Well, if you can afford it, by all means? Might I ask what you'll use them all for? You mentioned printing for friends, the only requests I've had was from a friend of mine wanting a phone case.

My 3d printer room :D in the basement:
TEVO tornado will go under the shelf with the wood board on it, may install an enclosure to block out dust cause it's so near the floor. Hypercube once I build it probably on the middle of the shelf.
https://i.imgur.com/FEY40til.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/aZMeHW9l.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/o5Z3TyVl.jpg

@Trakyan sorry for late reply, been busy of late working. I plan on designing stuff and selling it online or 3Dhubs and since I'm an instrumentalist, lots of instruments parts work well on PLA or PETG, so I will also go that route.

I will also start posting my work on the Hypercube Evolution here, that's where the extrusions you see below the i3 mega and the kossel are there for, waiting for one extrusion that was slightly bent.