Hexagon vs E3D V6

For the last few months I have had a hard time with my hobbled bolt eating filament. I have attempted to resolve this with every tip online and everything that Colin has suggested.

Right now I am using the Hexagon 1.75mm hotend and I think the design of the hotend equates to a lot of pressure when the filament is being fed. This in turn means my hobbled bolt is eating the filament. I can support this claim as the printer is warming up it oozes a large amount of filament.

So now I am looking into the E3D V6 hotend and one of the claims they make is the nozzle is designed to relieve pressure.

I want to know if anyone has any experience switching from the Hexagon hotend to an E3D? What results have you seen, etc.

so a couple things ive seen only lately.
If your nozzle is too close to the bed, it will eat the filament. it cant push the filament out so it back pressures... seen this a few times while working on bed leveling.
Also... the type of filament matters a lot.
for instance, clear PLA from MIcrocenter eats and jams like crazy. BUT hatchbox pla does not.
Now ive heard sometimes that clear PLA needs 225-230 temps, which i could test and should... but at least a couple things to check

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Originally Posted by BLKKROW

For the last few months I have had a hard time with my hobbled bolt eating filament. I have attempted to resolve this with every tip online and everything that Colin has suggested. Right now I am using the Hexagon 1.75mm hotend and I think the design of the hotend equates to a lot of pressure when the filament is being fed. This in turn means my hobbled bolt is eating the filament. I can support this claim as the printer is warming up it oozes a large amount of filament. So now I am looking into the E3D V6 hotend and one of the claims they make is the nozzle is designed to relieve pressure. I want to know if anyone has any experience switching from the Hexagon hotend to an E3D? What results have you seen, etc.

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I switched to the E3Dv6. I had pretty much resolved all my issues with filament being chewed by the hobbed bolt beforehand, so I can't report on a difference there. The E3Dv6 does ooze, and I'm not sure it is pressure in the chamber doing it - rather just that portion of filament getting hotter than usual as it sits in the hot end. In case I hadn't pointed you to it before, I maintain a dissertation of sorts on possible causes of the filament getting chewed here - FILAMENT HAS A NOTCH CUT INTO IT BY THE HOBBED BOLT. Maybe it suggests a few things Colin hasn't.

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Originally Posted by dunginhawk

...for instance, clear PLA from MIcrocenter eats and jams like crazy.

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Of course, MicroCenter carries multiple brands of PLA, but I've had two rolls of their house brand stuff (actually from TonerPlastics) with bumps in it that couldn't pass into the slightly undersized hole in the hexagon heat sink. That was quite frustrating until I figured out what was causing my prints to fail. I happened to feel a bump when I was refeeding the filament into the hot end... After that I unrolled about 25 ft of filament to test before another print and found several bumps throughout that length.

Going back a ways there was a discussion about the two hot ends and some of the info from the hex owners was that the fulamant path was 1.8mm dia compared to 2mm like every other hot end out there. 1.8 is way too tight and will be prone to jams. I have 4 e3dv6 and run them nostop the past year and a half. I never have a jamming problem with them. The ptfe liner makes a big difference.

I shall provide a list of things I have done to resolve the issue:

1. Filament - I have measured and tested the Makerfarm filament and am getting precise measurements of 1.75mm +/- .1. There are no bumps and the filament is not oval.

2. I modified Greg Wades extruder, instead of two washer before the large gear, I have one regular washer and one wave washer. I then used a nylon lock nut on the large gear to keep it in place. The combination of these keeps the gear in one spot and it doesn't wander.

3. I tried raising the voltage on the extruder motor.

4. I checked the extruder setup to make sure the hobbled bolt is center and the hole for the filament to the extruder is wide and clean with no major bumps or edges to snag the filament.

5. I have cleaned the nozzle using the cold pull technique. After which I cleared the hot end of filament and raised the temperature of the hot end to try to soften any plastic that may remain. I then pushed clean filament through by hand to attempt to remove any debris.

6. I have checked the spacing on the idler springs, the bearing on the idler spins freely. I am getting teeth marks in the filament when pushed past the hobbled bolt, so I should be getting proper tension on the filament.

7. I am using a dust filter to collect any dust or debris before it enters the hot end.

8. I replaced the stock fan on the extruder and replaced it with a more reliable Noctua fan. This fan runs 100% of the time while the printer is on.

9. I have the spools of filament on some ball bearings so it can dispense the filament with ease.

10. I level the bed using feeler Gauges to 0.1mm.

Anything I have not covered? These are what I remember doing at this time.

is it only one type of filament? or does it happen with every spool?
try running it hotter... if its pla just try it at 225-230... it will not produce a great print perhaps, but it will give us some more info :)
thanks

It happens with every spool of filament, I was running it at 220*c. I will try at 230*c but that seems rather high.

At this point I have narrowed it down to the hot end not flowing correctly.

I just took apart the hot end (Nozzle, Nozzle Block, and Heat Fins) and tried to clean it as much as possible and then reassembled it and tightened everything. Lets hope this helps. I will try a print tomorrow.

I have a roll of 1.75mm ABS from Makerfarm in Blue that I have to hand feed, otherwise it stops feeding, which I feel is bumps. My Hatchbox does not have this issue, and if I hand feed the makerfarm filament it works fine. Something about pulling off the spool, and I think getting to a slight bump. there is never a jam, it just stops feeding.

Its funny how hatchbox is starting to catch on.. ive been printing with it for over a year and swear its the best stuff out there.. never an issue with it... and its priced very well. im a hatchbox fan for sure.

So I attempted a print using PLA Yellow from Makerfarm with no success. I am going to try another roll of filament that I have had the "most" success with, it is also Makerfarm. If that doesn't work I have another roll that is a no name brand that I can try.

So I am thinking about buying a roll of filament outside of Makerfarm to see if the filament is the issue. I have two people above mentioning hatchbox, is there anything else I should look into?

I use Hatchbox religiously...never had a problem. $21 a roll from Amazon is perfect!

So last night I purchased the Hatchbox filament and it arrived today (Thanks Amazon). I just tried to print with it and I ran into the same issue, the funny thing is that the last few times I attempted a print and then later found it air printing, I noticed the filament is being folded over inside the area around the hobbled bolt.

The one thing that it could be but I highly doubt is the fact I lost the heat sinks for the stepper drivers, so they have been running without them. I am going to contact Collin and see if I can get some replacements. If that doesn't fix the issue the only thing left is the Hexagon Hot End which I have been reading online has had issues with the 1.75mm filament not working.

Edit: When I loaded the Hatchbox filament it bubbled out the nozzle making me think they include something in their filament that others don't.

I have been using eSUN 1.75mm PLA for $21.99 for the last few months without problems from http://intservo.com/products/pla-fil...iant=800124035 . I have also used the PETG filament from there. They offer free shipping for $60 or over orders. I printed my 10" plastic Y-bed out of that PETG & have been using that since May. I am using the hexagon hotend.

I found the heat sinks and ordered some thermal ceramic paste to adhere the heat sinks to the stepper drivers. I will receive the ceramic paste tomorrow and will test the last thing that I can think of before buying a new hot end.

One thing that I have noticed is the fact that it is difficult to hand feed the hot end, I have to apply a lot of force for it to ooze out the nozzle. With my old printer it was extremely easy to feed the filament by hand so I am pretty sure the hot end is what is terrorizing me. Who knows maybe I got a hexagon nozzle from a bad batch, but I have been reading reviews and found that the E3DV6 is a terrific hot end. In the long run I will be upgrading to the E3D I just want to make sure that everything else on the printer is 100% functional.

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Originally Posted by BLKKROW

...I just tried to print with it and I ran into the same issue, the funny thing is that the last few times I attempted a print and then later found it air printing, I noticed the filament is being folded over inside the area around the hobbled bolt.

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Um, what is the "same issue"? Filament being notched by the hobbed bolt? Are you saying the Hatchbox filament did not fold over like others had before?

I don't think you previously mentioned the filament folding over, even though that is critical info. Of course, once the filament has folded the fact that the filament is carved by the hobbed bolt is pointless to pursue. The filament folding over opens up new possibilities. A few others have battled that. One possible take is that you have issues since you're using 1.75mm filament in an extruder body really better suited for 3mm - a minor detail Colin won't admit to you. The feed hole below the hobbed bolt has to be large enough to pass 3mm filament. 1.75mm will fit, but with slop around it than can encourage some slight bending in the filament that could be the start of the folding problem. One way to try eliminating that is to add a liner tube to the feed hole below the hobbed bolt in the extruder base. Before I revamped the extruder design to fix the issue for real, I used 2mm ID aluminum tubing. Someone had reported a length of empty ink tube from a Bic pen worked fine as well. Of course, the E3Dv6 hot end provides a PTFE tube that can pass up through that hole. Also, envision the difference between 3mm and 1.75mm filament being pressed between the hobbed bolt and the guidler bearing. When you use 1.75mm filament, the filament has to be pushed over to the hobbed bolt side, leading to a misalignment between the filament and the feed hole in the extruder base. This often works OK, but perhaps in some cases this misalignment leads to a problem. The extruder design revamp that I've linked to previously makes it easier to adjust both of these issues as part of optimizing a Wades extruder for your particulars.

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The one thing that it could be but I highly doubt is the fact I lost the heat sinks for the stepper drivers, so they have been running without them. I am going to contact Collin and see if I can get some replacements. If that doesn't fix the issue the only thing left is the Hexagon Hot End which I have been reading online has had issues with the 1.75mm filament not working.

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You've lost me, and likely others. What issue are you having that could be caused by the missing heatsinks on the stepper drivers? The heatsinks would make a difference in whether the drivers would overheat. If they overheat, they simply don't step. Folded filament or the filament being carved by the hobbed bolt would not be a symptom of this.

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You previously mentioned you were going to try printing at 230 degrees. Did you try that? Don't fret over the absolute temperature number, at least for test prints. Maybe even try a higher temperature than 230. Print at whatever temperature setting works for you. A temperature is too hot only if the print is demonstrating features of the filament being printed too hot. The uncalibrated thermistor scheme used in the rep rap printers is generally known to only be good to +/- 20 or 30 degrees - it could be that your setup is reading high for some reason. Are you still running MakerFarm provided firmware, or your own build? If the latter, are you sure the firmware was built with the proper thermistor type selected? You should be able to feel a difference in how filament can be manually pushed through the hot end as the hot end temperature is changed - use that as input in figuring out what a good printing temperature is, not what a filament manufacturer, Colin, your neighbor, or anyone else says you should print at.

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Originally Posted by printbus

Um, what is the "same issue"? Filament being notched by the hobbed bolt? Are you saying the Hatchbox filament did not fold over like others had before?

I don't think you previously mentioned the filament folding over, even though that is critical info. Of course, once the filament has folded the fact that the filament is carved by the hobbed bolt is pointless to pursue. The filament folding over opens up new possibilities. A few others have battled that. One possible take is that you have issues since you're using 1.75mm filament in an extruder body really better suited for 3mm - a minor detail Colin won't admit to you. The feed hole below the hobbed bolt has to be large enough to pass 3mm filament. 1.75mm will fit, but with slop around it than can encourage some slight bending in the filament that could be the start of the folding problem. One way to try eliminating that is to add a liner tube to the feed hole below the hobbed bolt in the extruder base. Before I revamped the extruder design to fix the issue for real, I used 2mm ID aluminum tubing. Someone had reported a length of empty ink tube from a Bic pen worked fine as well. Of course, the E3Dv6 hot end provides a PTFE tube that can pass up through that hole. Also, envision the difference between 3mm and 1.75mm filament being pressed between the hobbed bolt and the guidler bearing. When you use 1.75mm filament, the filament has to be pushed over to the hobbed bolt side, leading to a misalignment between the filament and the feed hole in the extruder base. This often works OK, but perhaps in some cases this misalignment leads to a problem. The extruder design revamp that I've linked to previously makes it easier to adjust both of these issues as part of optimizing a Wades extruder for your particulars.



You've lost me, and likely others. What issue are you having that could be caused by the missing heatsinks on the stepper drivers? The heatsinks would make a difference in whether the drivers would overheat. If they overheat, they simply don't step. Folded filament or the filament being carved by the hobbed bolt would not be a symptom of this.

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You previously mentioned you were going to try printing at 230 degrees. Did you try that? Don't fret over the absolute temperature number, at least for test prints. Maybe even try a higher temperature than 230. Print at whatever temperature setting works for you. A temperature is too hot only if the print is demonstrating features of the filament being printed too hot. The uncalibrated thermistor scheme used in the rep rap printers is generally known to only be good to +/- 20 or 30 degrees - it could be that your setup is reading high for some reason. Are you still running MakerFarm provided firmware, or your own build? If the latter, are you sure the firmware was built with the proper thermistor type selected? You should be able to feel a difference in how filament can be manually pushed through the hot end as the hot end temperature is changed - use that as input in figuring out what a good printing temperature is, not what a filament manufacturer, Colin, your neighbor, or anyone else says you should print at.

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Thank you for the detailed response!

Also, I would like to say the first 3 months I had the printer with 0 problems extruding. Then this issue arose and I have been fighting it ever since.

#1. The filament folding over is a new thing, typically the hobbled bolt eats the filament and that's the end of the print. Now I have seen it fold the filament twice. Once with the Hatchbox and once with Makerfarm filament. I will look into the play between the filament and Greg Wade's extruder, I was going to take it apart soon and look into all of that.

#2. I have raised the print temperature to 230*c with the filament tests and I am running into the filament being chewed and now the filament being folded over. I can certainly try a higher temperature although I was originally printing at 210*c with no issues when the printer was working.

One thing I have not mentioned but I have tried was making sure the large and small gears are aligned on the extruder.

What I was trying to imply with the stepper drivers is that I have tried pretty much everything else and thought maybe the drivers were overheating and causing problems. I really need to do it anyway so I thought I might as well try it before I purchase a $90 hot end.

Sounds almost for sure like a partially clogged nozzle, like I had. Particles from the wades gears dropped down in there, and stopped it up. A cold-pull will fix it.

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The feed hole below the hobbed bolt has to be large enough to pass 3mm filament. 1.75mm will fit, but with slop around it than can encourage some slight bending in the filament that could be the start of the folding problem. One way to try eliminating that is to add a liner tube to the feed hole below the hobbed bolt in the extruder base

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I did this too; I brought the liner up to about 3 mm below the surface where it would stick out into the bolt area, then melted with a soldering iron the plastic above the liner to keep it from retracting up further, then used a drill to clean it up.

I have tried to cold pull like mentioned above with no success.

I also forgot to mention I am running stock firmware.

Did you get a 0.4 drill and use it?

So I spent some time yesterday trying to narrow down the problem even further.

I got the filament to feed easily by hand so I don't think the nozzle is clogged.I then looked into the diameter of the feed from the hobbled bolt to the extruder and mine is at 4.00mm +/- .2mm.

So I will purchase some aluminum tubing that should narrow that diameter to 2pm like printbus stated above.

Printbus:

I am happy to say you have solved my problem! I am printing with an aluminum collar inside of the extruder like you recommended and my hobled bolt is not chewing filament or making any sort noise like it used to.

I thank you so much!