Printable View
I am looking into possibly buying a 3d printer for printing in metal or ceramics.
The parts that I need to print are very small (less than 3mm square by less than 1 mm thick) they have very small features (protrusions) that are about 100 microns square.
I need to have an accuracy of +/- 20 microns or better.
Am I dreaming or is this now possible?
If so, who sells the machines that are capable of this and at what price range?
Thanks for your help,
Dan
With that level of detail, you're looking at Selective Laser Sintering (SLS) or Direct Metal Printing (DMP) / Direct Metal Laser Sintering (DMLS), which will run into many tens of thousands or even more (I'm not that familiar with the price range, but it's right up there). Couple of providers include http://www.3dsystems.com and http://www.solidconcepts.com (a quick google search for "metal SLS printer" or "DMP printer" or "DMLS printer" will give you a few results).
A cheaper option may be to use a wax SLS printer and lost wax casting, but I don't know what level of detail you'll be able to get out of the casting process. You might be able to find one that fits your bill for under $10K.
Who makes a wax SLS printer for under $10k?
Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com
My bad. SLA, not SLS.Quote:
Originally Posted by awerby
I'm not aware of any metal printers that can provide reasonable quality prints at that size. Metal printers tend to leave too much cleanup for small parts, which effect tolerances. I'm waiting for the day when I can print watch parts for my mechanical watches, but I don't think that day has arrived just yet.
you want to look at the jewellery printers. Specificially designed for small highly detailed prints.
Either lost wax moulds or direct printing.
http://envisiontec.com/applications/jewelry/
have a wade through that lot :-)
http://www.inside3dp.com/new-industr...nting-jewelry/
Worth looking at - but be aware you're going to need long arms and deep pockets :-)
Thanks for your help!
I've looked at the links provided, none of these machines have the accuracy that I need, even the one for jewelry only has a resolution of 0.25mm. High resolution means low accuracy.
Maybe 3d printers are not yet up to the task that I have.
Say what? High resolution usually means high accuracy. What did i miss?Quote:
Originally Posted by danr
No they are not the same. Resolution is in the case of most 3D printers is the number steps for X-Y and layer height for Z. Accuracy is related to how close you can come and how often to where you want to be. Two printers might have the same resolution. But due to slop, backlash, how rigid it is, and other factors can have wildly different accuracies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by truly_bent
I get that. If two printers have the same resolution it doesn't necessarily follow that they both have the same accuracy, but a generalization saying that 'high resolution means low accuracy' isn't right either.
There are many online companies and providers are available who are providing the different parts of printing machine according to your need and with best price. You just find your material on different stores like solid concept which is a best provider for prototyping, tooling and injection modeling. It provides a great service with great price with amazing turn around. I think the part you are searching will definitely get you on this site.
Sure it is...Quote:
Originally Posted by truly_bent
If the resolution is 10 mils, then accuracy cannot be better than 10 mils. In order to get accuracy of 20 microns, resolution (layer thickness) needs to be less than 20 microns.
I have no idea what you meant to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by MercedesStolp
@sls
I will still be cautious about the accuracy.
You're printing from extremely high temperature and it cools down to room temperature. Talk about shrinking .... lot of shrinking that just kill your precision wanted.
Best way to check is to get a sample and check it on MMT
@sla
There is still resin shrinking. The laser diameter itself is about 100 to 300 microns, which limit what you want. Small DLP printer might what you are looking for , since you are not limited by the laser diameter, but still resin shrinking....
We saw a nice loss wax 3D printer at the TCT show last year it was in Stratsys Solidscape range . I think it would do want you wanted to, depending upon how good you were at the actual casting process but the cost was £20k+ if memory serves us right.
And the Solidscape machines can be a challenge to keep running. Replacement parts are really expensive. But the material casts better than any other material i've found. Minimal grow lines on the prints as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by iDig3Dprinting
We have never used a SolidScape machine, it just looked very nice in action. What did you use your machine for?Quote:
Originally Posted by bford903
Jewelry casting. I worked on a Solidscape T66 for a while. The material looked great and casted well, but the machine was a pain to keep running. Broke down often and the extruders/jets were $1000 a piece. A gentleman from Solidscape called me the other day wanting to show off their new line, but I haven't had time to make it over there. Maybe they've made improvements.
*SIDE NOTE: My difficulties with the Solidscape may be due to operator incompetence. :D
This is what a Solidscape print looks like. They come out of the machine just like that. Casts just like wax with normal gypsum-based investment.
http://3dprintboard.com/attachment.p...tid=5170&stc=1
great looking work. what did you use for the 3D modelling and I would be interested to know a bit more about the casting process you used to keep the detail. We have not done casting before, at least not to this standard.Quote:
Originally Posted by bford903
We do a lot of casting using either waxes taken off 3D printed masters or straight burn outs.
It's quite difficult to see many uses where metal sintering becomes financially viable over casting.
Just this last week we've had our first prints done using the Projet 3500 and Casting materials.
The results at 0.016mm layers are very impressive (not cheap!)
Still waiting to get them cast however (vacuum investment.)
http://3dprintboard.com/attachment.p...tid=5175&stc=1
Actually that's a stock photo I grabbed from Google but that really is how they look after removing the support material. I use Rhino for 3D modeling. We cast it the same way you would cast wax (lost wax casting). With a slightly runny mix of investment, you can get some better detail in the casting. However, the difficult part is not polishing away all of your detail later.Quote:
Originally Posted by iDig3Dprinting
There are machines that can do that, or come pretty close to it. EOS of Germany makes a micro-laser sintering machine that prints directly in metals. Here's some information about their process: http://www.eos.info/eos_pressemitteilung_3dmicorprint Of course, these machines aren't exactly cheap - last time I heard, they were about 1 million USD each. But you might be able to find a service bureau that has one and can make these parts for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by danr
If you want ceramic parts instead of metal ones, there's an Austrian company, Lithoz, that uses a process called lithography-based ceramic manufacturing to make small highly-detailed objects. I'm not sure they can hold the tolerances you need, but you could ask them about it: http://www.lithoz.com/en/products/cerafab-7500/
Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com