CubePro Duo, Does this thing actualy work?

Hi all,

I have recently purchased a CubePro Duo for our office as a small scale backup printer. So far I have managed to get about 2-3 prints to actually work in it and approximately 20 failures.

One of the major problems I have is that parts either shift or pop off of the build platen and basically that's the end of the build.
The second major problem is the parts warping and slightly curling off the platen. When this happens the print head basically runs into the build, melts the material all over the head and as before, the entire print is ruined, not to mention I have to clean a bunch of abs or pla off of the heads.

I very much appreciate that this is not a pro machine by any means, but it should still f@#$ing work!

I was wondering if anyone else out there has one of these and has gotten it to work consistently and successfully? Do you have any tips and tricks?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

When you get it dialed in, the printer is AWESOME. You will need to put in a bit of time, but it is worth it.

1) Make sure you've leveled the print bed with the calibration test print. Take the time to get it right.
2) Make sure you've put enough glue on the build plate to cover the entire build.
3) Select the option to print a sidewalk around the print - this will help with curling.

Hope this helps.

Charles

Sounds like you're having very typical consumer level 3d printer issues. 3D printing is not a science, it's an art. Every spool of every material from every manufacturer is going to be slightly different than the next which potentially requires adjustments to your settings. Different models will respond differently to those same settings. Some models are simply not printable using a FDM machine. There are a lot of factors involved in getting a good print and if any one of them is not right the printer won't work. This is the main reason why imo these things are just not ready for prime time in the consumer space. People have been groomed to expect their technology to just work but in this case, "it just works" doesn't really happen.

Things to look at/adjust in addition to the items posted above:
speeds and feeds
flatness of the build plate
nozzle temperature (and bed if it is heated, I'm not specifically familiar with that model)
ACTUAL diameter of the filament (not the nominal, you will need to measure it)
Nozzle to bed gap at Z=0 (should be just enough to slide a piece of copy paper between with a bit of drag)

The CubePro has a heated build chamber - not a heated build plate. You shouldn't have to fiddle with speed and feeds, flatness of build plate (unless you have glue build-up) or the filament diameter (the CubePro cartridges are all standardized).

The nozzle to bed gap at Z=0 is as important as anything - if that isn't right, your print won't come out the way you want it to.

Finally, if you've downloaded a file from thingiverse, don't expect that it will print well. It might be fine, but I've downloaded plenty of files that have not worked. It may not be the printers fault - it may be either a bad file OR a file that has geometries that can't be printed by an FDM printer without major supports (that would then require WAY more post-processing than you want to do).

Please post back and let us know if any of these suggestions help. Good luck!

Hey all, thanks for the tips. Sadly, I have tried just about everything that you have suggested all ready and still the parts just won't stick down for some reason. With that said, while I don't expect a machine to "just work", I do expect it to be troubleshootable and work properly once you have it figured out. This isn't my first 3D printer and I have not had half the problems with other machines that I'm having with the CubePro Duo.

Anyways, without making this personal:

1. Have calibrated the machine 10 + times in the past month and it's dialed in.
2. Regarding the glue, I definitely have enough on the platen to cover the full build. One of my questions regarding the glue is how much is too much / not enough? Also, how long should the glue set up before the print runs? This process is very ambiguous.
3. For the sidewalk, what are the best setting for the sidewalk to avoid curling? If I check "Sidewalk Perforation" in the advanced build setting, will that apply the sidewalk?

@soofle
Unfortunately most of the settings and factors that you are listing are not adjustable on the CubePro. Speeds and feeds, nozzle temperature, filament diameter are all set and can't be adjusted (that I know of). I've leveled the plate, both on the machine and off.
The Z-gap.....so this could be interesting. I have leveled the z-gap as best I can numerous times and I am starting to notice something interesting. For some reason I can level the left nozzle (to just lightly grab a piece of paper) but it is always looser under the right nozzle when I do. If I calibrate to the right nozzle, the left is too tight.
My thinking now is that possibly the nozzles are not level on the print head itself. Does anyone out there know if I can adjust the height of the nozzles them self on the printhead?

So overall, the big problem now is just that the parts will NOT stick to the platen. Everyone curls and if allowed to run, will run into the printhead.
Thoughts?

My next plan......
So Ive decided that I am going to machine a new platen out of ABS itself. I will re-zero to the ABS platen and run a test part to see what happens. Theoretically, I am going on the premises that an ABS raft will literally melt to the platen and, with any luck, will not be able to peel. I know this is how the Dimensions machines do it, but they are much higher end so who knows.

Anyways, thanks for your help and if you can think of anything else, please drop me a line.

I don't know what sidewalk setting would be best for you to avoid the curling issue - I'd experiment with the settings. I think if you turned OFF the sidewalk perforation, that might give you a greater chance of avoiding the curling that has been plaguing you, but it would likely make for more post-processing to remove the sidewalk.

You can certainly adjust the heights of individual nozzles - and you should if they are not aligned. Check the user manual or contact Cubify support for instructions. I can't walk you through it via this forum, but I know it can be done because I've had to tweak my printers settings.

Regarding the glue: make sure that you clean the buildplate (wash off the glue) before every build. Completely cover your build area in glue, let it dry. It shouldn't be liquidy or shiny anymore. At that point it is then ready to print.

Hey John,
I always wash the platen between builds and sand it from time to time to help with adhesion. I will try your glue suggestion and let it dry fully before running the print.

My task today is going to be trying to adjust the height of the nozzles on the printhead.

You have to get a file from Cubify.com to calibrate your offset jets. This file (select the correct one as there is also a calibration file for the CubePro Trio) will allow you to print out a scale that shows whether your nozzles (jets) are aligned. If not you can align them using the Print Jet Calibration > Offset Jets area of the menu. The calibration process for the CubePro can be quite involved but the information is all in the manual that came with your CubePro. I would suggest steadily working through all the calibration procedures.

If you can get it set up correctly, ignoring issues with problem .STL files, it should give you some good quality prints.

Hi Idig, Running through the offset calibration as we speak, it's slightly off but not to hard to adjust.

The problem i have uncovered now is the two jets are not the same on the Z axis. Meaning their height relative to their mounting to the print head is different, so calibrating the Z axis is not possible as the two heads are at different heights......any thought? Short of taking apart the printhead, I'm stumped right now as I don't thin there is an adjustment for this.

One further request from everyone, if anyone has a CubePro Duo, could you please take a picture of your print head from the bottom and post it up or send it to me. In looking at it this morning I noticed that the side cooling fans (Y axis, aimed directly at the print nozzles) are not mounted the same. One is mounted outside of the bracket, the other is mounted inside the bracket. Yep, seriously. I will fix this today as well but just want to know if they should be inside or outside the bracket.

Cheers al and thanks for the help. Hoping I can get this thing running properly.

One final question I'm hoping someone could advise on.

Have you had better results using mixed materials for the support vs part? Or sticking to all one material?

OK I have some info.

The image you requested for the position of the cooling fans is below. I hope it helps. In addition I can also email you a PDF that deals with replacing extruders. Within this (at the end) it deals with aligning the heights of the nozzles/jets. The best thing to do is contact us via our contacts page. Put the subject is as "CubePro Nozzle Height Adjustment". I can then email you a link to the pdf.

But please remember that we cannot endorse you carrying out repairs or adjustments like this to your machine yourself. The machine is probably still under warranty and so you should enquire with cubifysupport@3DSystems.Com . After all we do not want you to damage your machine or yourself in the process.

We always appreciate likes, follows, tweets and reviews on Facebook, Twitter and Google+, if you feel inclined.

http://3dprintboard.com/attachment.p...tid=4895&stc=1

Hi iDig,

Thanks for the help and thanks very much for the image. I emailed you about the document. I'll see whats involved and decide if I'll just take it on myself. Regarding the cooling fans on the printhead, my printhead is setup exactly like that. Any idea why the side fans are mounted differently for each nozzle? It seems strange to me that one is far and one is close.

Through troubleshooting I am now very much thinking that the nozzle height difference is the problem. Whatever material I put into nozzle 1 works out fine. But any material I put in nozzle 2 fails, either doesn't stay adhered to the plate or model or doesn't lay down properly.

Thanks again.

Hi BridgeFactory,

I have sent you a link to the PDF. Remember, you should read the document carefully, including all the safety instructions. Once you have read it you will understand how best to proceed. But, to reiterate a point, if its under warranty and there is an issue you can get 3D systems/Cubify support to repair it. We don't want you injuring yourself or your machine.

We don't know about the cooling fan position, it could be a functional reason or a design issue. If it is positioned the same then I would suggest that this is how it is supposed to be.

Let us know how you get on.

Ive just come accross this post and thought I would add some of my experience with this printer.
I got this printer for work and we went with this one due to the plug and play nature of the reels and software. I wanted the ultimaker 2 but my boss didnt want me spending all my time playing with the settings!

At first I was having the same issues as you. Parts would not stick to the tray and dual head extrusions just didnt work - either didnt stick to other layers or the tray. Anyway in the 6 months ive had the printer, ive got a bit better at determining what will and wont work on this machine.

I mostly do ABS prints and used to also suffer from warping. The best advise I can give is let the glue try, totally. Give it 5 or 10 mins. Secondly, if printing in ABS, pre-heat the chamber well before printing. You can go into settings and get the heater going 30-60 mins before printing and the tray/chamber will be up to temp.
Basically the time the machine gives for glue and heating is nowhere near long enough to get good prints. I know it adds time but its worth it.

A raft can help the warping but is very hard to remove from the part and ruins the print, so I never use it now. Ive had pretty good results with the sidewalk feature, only introduced in the 1.38 software. The defaults are 8mm wide, 2 layers thick with 0.25 offset. I sometimes increase the offset to 0.40 to help remove it from the part but have never experimented with perforation, never had to.

My biggest bugbear with this machine is the support generation - its simply awful. It skips some areas and adds it to places you dont want it and you have zero control over it. I used to use point contact thinking it would be easier to remove. It really doesnt work so only use line contact now. On bigger parts I remove the borders of the support which makes it much easier to remove, but on smaller parts can make the support disappear altogether.

I am experimenting trying to get kisslsicer to work with the cubepro and there is some activity on the forums with fairly limited success so far due to the closed nature of the system and the build file encryption. For some, the aim is to bypass the proprietry material cartridges, but for me, my only goal is to get better support generation and removal.
The printer is very capable but is let down by the limited software. I would be happy with the machine if I could bypass the poor slicer they use. The good news is that the firmware and software appears to be in active development so things can only get better with new releases every couple months.

Hello All

I have been using the Cubepro single nozzle model for about a year with mixed results. I have had the nozzle clog repeatedly, often in the middle of longer print jobs, which is infuriating since there is no official way to recover the lost job. An unofficial way I am exploring is to restore the nozzle (more on that coming), then subtract the extent of the printed object from the model and re-publish it to the printer, then "trick" the printer into thinking that the top of the current print job is actually the platen surface by making a standoff that is equal to the height of the print's progress and positioning that standoff on the frame member that the microswitch contacts to sense the platen. This has actually worked, though on shut-down the vertical drive is going to run down past the lower limit so that the platform jams against the floor of the machine and you have to use a wrench on the top of the vertical drive screw to unjam it with a mild clockwise torque when it is turned off. Proceed at your own risk, but if it spares you from throwing away 12 hours of printing it can be worth it. Be sure to remove the standoff before the next print.

About the jamming, I am finding after about a half dozen nozzles, that the teflon liner that guides the filament through the print head immediately before it reaches the heater tip often warps and squeezes the filament so that it stops advancing. Its a pity that this whole sophisticated device can be rendered useless by this obstructing of the filament path by a little tube. But after witnessing this repeatedly I'm pretty sure this is what is happening. I wish one could just stock in the teflon tube instead of ordering a whole new nozzle for $99.

I just wanted to offer a solution to people whose prints are separating from the platen: if the first centimeter of your object forms a large continuous path, like a 8" diameter cylinder for instance, the contraction of the polymer during setting is going to form hoop stresses that are effectively pull the model inwards. I have had this happen so badly that the upper teflon layer became unglued from its glass backing, or the glass actually cracking. The two solutions I have used is to add a length of channel aluminum to the outside of the four sides. The channel needs an inner dimension of 0.31" to fit over the thickness of the platform. The bumper on the front surface has to be removed on the front edge to accommodate this. This solution is going to cause the shrinkage stresses to remain unresolved, so good adhesion with glue and use of a sidewalk are essential. But another trick, which may not work for your model, is to include vertical notches every few centimeters around the perimeter in the first centimeter of height. This will prevent the hoop stresses in the first centimeter of layers and allow the stresses in the later layers to be resolved by bending the lower layers inwards. I've only used this once so far, but it seemed to work, but of course you might not want to have to fill in notches with epoxy later.

Last thought: Adhesion is super important, but I have had pieces adhere too well and ended up destroying them in the process of trying to peel them from the platform. The solution I found is to apply a layer of light oil to the cleaned platen every few prints, then apply the cement. Pieces have been peeling off nicely ever since, without debonding during the print.

I have had a CubePro since March. I have printed many items. I know the users manual backwards and forwards. When the filament does not break or the extruder is not jammed it prints very well. It does depend on the quality of the files. I have had 17 breaks on one cartridge. I have had multiple breaks on one job which makes it very difficult to remove the filament pieces from the tube. I am dealing with another jam right now that may require a new assembly. Libraries to the north and the south of me have different models. They are not having all these problems. Their printers consistently work. I really believe we made a bad choice when we purchased this printer over several other models out there. I do not know how many people I have sent to these other libraries to have something printed because we were dealing with a problem. The CubePro and 3D systems is not highly thought of by the people I send elsewhere. If I ever purchase another printer it will feed directly into the extruder from the roll. It will not go through tubes.

wow I've only ever had filament breaks if the filament got wrapped round the holder or if it was realy crap white filament (never had any other colour break - but white filament seems to be extra brittle.

So are you a public library ?
The idea of a 3d printer in a library seems both weird and strangely appropriate.

Wonder if there are any libraries in the uk with 3d printers.

got no problem with you advertising this gadget robert, as it frankly is something a cube pro owner needs - but don't post the same thing in multiple forum sections :-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ROBERTOGEHLEN

Now available for CubePro chip reserter and unblocker for CubePro, duo & trio. You can save much money using these devices .... www.cube3dfree.com

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You don't need to buy that. S3D has an FFF for those printers you just need the codeX64 to compile the file to a .cubepro or appropriate extension.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BridgeFactory

One of the major problems I have is that parts either shift or pop off of the build platen and basically that's the end of the build.
The second major problem is the parts warping and slightly curling off the platen. When this happens the print head basically runs into the build, melts the material all over the head and as before, the entire print is ruined, not to mention I have to clean a bunch of abs or pla off of the heads.

I very much appreciate that this is not a pro machine by any means, but it should still f@#$ing work!

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This sometimes happens to me, the print warping, popping off, and shifting. Try putting a layer of masking tape, placing it as close to each other as possible without overlapping and covering the whole print bed. Trim it off and calibrate it. If you don't it will just dig into the tape and ruin the print, and head. After calibrating, add a layer of glue stick of where the print will be, I just look at the model and approximate it covering more than I need. This should fix the warping and everything if using PLA. I think if you are using ABS with the heated bed, this should still work.

Using the method above also allows you do eliminate the use of rafts.

I explain some of it in my article here: http://3dprintboard.com/showthread.p...Printer-Review