Flashforge Creator Dual / Pro How to fix Dual Extruders dragging across prints.

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Originally Posted by soofle616

I've been thinking along the same lines recently. Unfortunately, while I have the mechanical and design prowess to come up with a variety of solutions, I don't have the programming knowledge to make any needed changes to the firmware for an active head retraction method. Something passive like your spring retract might work though.

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Maybe between us we can come up with a solution - if time ever allows! A good read here: http://tinyurl.com/prr48wy regarding extruder forces, seem to be in the 1 to 3Kg range.

I have one of the Airtripper extruders for a 3D project I started a while back and hope to finish one day (this is as far as I got: http://tinyurl.com/ouzpgba ) but two house moves and two more to come next year have put that project on hold. I recently bought the FFCP as a stop-gap as needed parts for my main project (http://www.cine2digits.co.uk/). It was for this project I discovered that a thin white ABS layer (0.4 to 0.6) makes for a good diffuser with performance not to dissimilar to expensive, and soon to become extinct, flashed opal glass. The problem of the head(s) dragging across the surface is not tolerable for this application!

So, I think I'm also having the issue with my Creator Pro dragging. However, I don't even have hex sockets on the screw I think you're referring to (image is dead on page 1).

Are these the two screws I need to adjust? If so, I would have to loosen mine with vice grips I'm guessing.

Attachment 4124

If the nozzles are level and you're getting head drags - you're bed is not perfectly level.
Solution: add a level bed. I use 3mm aluminium.

Also leave both heads in place and level once you've sorted the bed out. Otherwise the head you use gets worn down by rubbing on print (when it goes back over extruded parts of alayer to reach unextruded areas) and you go back to the uneven heads job again.

I fitted two new nozzlkes a while ago and had no height problems since.

But the most important issue is getting a perfectly level print bed.

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Originally Posted by curious aardvark

If the nozzles are level and you're getting head drags - you're bed is not perfectly level.
Solution: add a level bed. I use 3mm aluminium.

Also leave both heads in place and level once you've sorted the bed out. Otherwise the head you use gets worn down by rubbing on print (when it goes back over extruded parts of alayer to reach unextruded areas) and you go back to the uneven heads job again.

I fitted two new nozzlkes a while ago and had no height problems since.

But the most important issue is getting a perfectly level print bed.

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Just to add, it is important to get a perfectly level bed with the printer fully up to temp, not the nozzles though.

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Originally Posted by catalyst

So, I think I'm also having the issue with my Creator Pro dragging. However, I don't even have hex sockets on the screw I think you're referring to (image is dead on page 1).

Are these the two screws I need to adjust? If so, I would have to loosen mine with vice grips I'm guessing.

Attachment 4124

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Those aren't screws, they are ceramic heating elements. The set screws are in the back. Horrible place for them because you have to take the steppers off to get to them...

well, that is good to know. Rather than screw with it, I just shimmed the left side and I'll see how that goes. I think the bed is warped anyhow, so I'll need to invest in a glass bed.

So as to fully understand this thread, PLEASE can the first photo be re-uploaded?

Ta muchly

So a couple of weeks ago I decided I needed to do this as left head slightly scraped over printing parts. Read first posts and it seemed simple enough should have read more of thread before starting! Took fans off and no set screws, then read enough more to know they are on the back(PowerSpec Pro), so ok take it apart. Thought why not turn so screws are on front so swapped heads which of course does not work because of offset, but now can't swap back because they are now frozen in place. Tried pulling, prying, and taping for a couple of hours scratching everything pretty good and no movement, so thinking I'm screwed. Last resort before ordering new parts tried spray lube and managed to wiggle them out. Had I carefully read the whole thread it would have saved me a lot of grief.

Got everything back together and it was the same still off just a little so had to take apart and redo with calipers handy. So now I have ordered the part jfkansas designed, looks like it will make things a lot easier.

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Originally Posted by incomenet

So a couple of weeks ago I decided I needed to do this as left head slightly scraped over printing parts. Read first posts and it seemed simple enough should have read more of thread before starting! Took fans off and no set screws, then read enough more to know they are on the back(PowerSpec Pro), so ok take it apart. Thought why not turn so screws are on front so swapped heads which of course does not work because of offset, but now can't swap back because they are now frozen in place. Tried pulling, prying, and taping for a couple of hours scratching everything pretty good and no movement, so thinking I'm screwed. Last resort before ordering new parts tried spray lube and managed to wiggle them out. Had I carefully read the whole thread it would have saved me a lot of grief.

Got everything back together and it was the same still off just a little so had to take apart and redo with calipers handy. So now I have ordered the part jfkansas designed, looks like it will make things a lot easier.

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Thanks, just saw the notification pop up. I hope to have a video up on installation/use of it later this week but was busy printing misc stuff this weekend. I too had the same issue of getting the thermal barrier tubes out after the set screw leaves its mark. The set screws really gall things up. On my original flashforge parts I ended up drilling out the mounting hole a little, but this doesn't do anything for heat transfer at all since only a sliver of metal to metal contact is left after the set screw pushes the tube forward in the hole.

One of the most important things to do when putting this new system on is getting the thermal tubes nice and smooth again. This will help insure that the tubes slide up and down easily when the clamps are loosened. I have been using the system for a couple of months now with no issues. Periodically check the clamp bolt to make sure it is tight.

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Originally Posted by jaykay2PT

So as to fully understand this thread, PLEASE can the first photo be re-uploaded?

Ta muchly

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I second that

Couple of notes for *total* noobs doing this with the newer Creator Pro.

It's not as hard as it sounds. It's mostly time consuming due to the lack of instructions available to you.

Notes on the instructions in the first post:

Your step screws are on the back of the bar the extruders are attached to. This means that like the second guy posting with the wooden kit, you're going to have to disassemble the whole extruder.

Because you have to disassemble the extruder it is entirely possible to push the extruder head up too far. It will prevent you from being able to reattach the plate because the back screw won't be long enough...this is a lesson that cost me an extra 45 minutes to figure out when I couldn't get the back screw to reach the plate.

Basics and things to know/do before you start:

With projects like this every time you remove a piece take a picture. You'll feel stupid, but it is so nice to refer back to them. Occasionally Flashforge will change the assembly/parts used and so knowing exactly what your specific machine looked like as opposed to what someone elses looked like will be very useful.

Turn the machine off, and unplug it before you disassemble. Ground yourself before you disassemble. You can do this by touching the bottom screw of the nearest light switch.

Get a bowl/deep plate/bead container. You're going to be taking a lot of small pieces apart and it's super easy to lose them. Every time you take of a screw or other piece drop it in the container. You may want multiple so that you keep the pieces separated by where they go.

When you take off the first fan put a small piece of blue tape on it so that you remember which fan goes on which side. The step motors(big silver black pieces that feed the filament) can't be put back on the wrong side as long as you pay attention to the spring, and you'll get the bar right as long as you remember that the set screws go towards the back, but the fans getting mixed up could prevent proper cooling and result in damage to the machine if you don't pay attention.

Supplies:-
-A bowl(s) or set of containers for the pieces as you take it apart
- The wrench set you got with the printer. If the hex wrenches don't fit the screws they aren't screws you need to worry about.
- A large but thin hardcover book
Optional:
- A grounding wrist strap

Steps:
1. Unload filament then turn off and unplug the machine
2. Ground yourself. Easiest way is usually to touch the bottom screw of a nearby light switch.
3. Take your hex wrench that came with the machine and detach the extruder
4. Lift the extruder up and place the book over the top opening of the machine. This will give you a decent working space for disassembly.
5. Begin by removing a fan. Behind the fan is some weird looking pieces of metal. They help cool the stepper motors and are pretty vital. Don't lose them of the white plastic things. Remember the order they came off in(pictures pictures and more pictures)
6. Follow same steps to remove the other fan
7. There are two screws running from the extruder bar to the plastic plate on the top, Remove the first one completely.
8. Undo the second screw, You can leave it and the plate attached or you can remove them and set them aside.
9. The extruder bar should be free. Note the positioning of the wires. Should run in between the stepper motors.
10. Flip the extruder bar over. Remove both set screws(refer to images in first post) Do NOT lose the set screws. They are tiny. They are the main reason you're going to want a bowl.
11. Pull the nozzles down slightlyBe somewhat gentle, you'll want to use a twisting motion. There may be a "pop" on the first twist before it starts to come down, this is normal, just don't overdo it and be mindful of the wires attached to the back.
12. Reassemble everything without reattaching to the printer or putting the set screws back in.
13. With the everything reattached you won't have to measure the nozzle height. Simply push them back up as high as they can go under gentle pressure.
14. Disassemble again, being careful not to bump the extruders out of place.
15. Replace the set screws
16. Reassemble the extruder, placing it, but not attaching it, on the holder for it in the printer
17. Turn printer back on and test loading filament.
18. During heating pay attention to which fan turns on. If you put the fan on the wrong side remove the fans and put them on the correct side.
18. Make sure that the filament extrudes in a straight line. Let it extrude for a while(minimum 30 seconds) to ensure that there isn't a blockage.
19. once filament extrudes correctly turn everything back off, and reattach the extruder with screws.
20. Level the build plate
21. do a test print

If the print comes out alright you're golden!

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Originally Posted by jfkansas

If you are interested, I designed this to get rid of the little grub screws. It also increases the contact area on the heat barrier tube since it wraps tightly around it. With the stock design the grub screw will always push the tube to one side and leaves an air gap on the grub screw side.

It is designed to be easy to change the extruder heights and set the to exactly the same height.

http://store.wmdproducts.com/index.p...&product_id=62

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What is the wait time on getting one of these? I see they are on pre-order status?

Hi, just sold the last one a couple days ago, except for the one I am using. :-)

Wasn't sure if I was gonna do another run but wouldn't you know when you run out all the sudden demand picks up. lol

I can have more in a couple weeks but I was gonna see if a few preorders could come in before committing to a production run.

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Originally Posted by jfkansas

Hi, just sold the last one a couple days ago, except for the one I am using. :-)

Wasn't sure if I was gonna do another run but wouldn't you know when you run out all the sudden demand picks up. lol

I can have more in a couple weeks but I was gonna see if a few preorders could come in before committing to a production run.

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How hard is the install process for it? Is there any soldering involved, or is it just reassembly?

Very easy, it is some disassembly and reassembly. The most important thing is smoothing the thermal barrier tube. The set screw that normally holds it in place gouges into the metal, this has to be fully smoothed out and polished for the tube to slide up and down properly.

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Originally Posted by jfkansas

Hi, just sold the last one a couple days ago, except for the one I am using. :-)

Wasn't sure if I was gonna do another run but wouldn't you know when you run out all the sudden demand picks up. lol

I can have more in a couple weeks but I was gonna see if a few preorders could come in before committing to a production run.

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Are you still taking pre-orders? Not sure if you sent in your production run.

Yep, still taking pre orders. Should have them ready to ship in 2 weeks.

Wow, how does time fly so fast? Sorry for any delays in shipping out. Finally have these in production after a few delays. It won't be long now. I'm not sure how many are on the board that pre-ordered since it is difficult or impossible to associate a name with an email. If you want chime in here and let me know or PM your email and I will give a more detailed status update.

Thanks

I had thought my build plate was warped, but since adjusting the extruder heights to be even, plate leveling works better and is easier.

This process should be on the printer setup list.

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Originally Posted by jfkansas

Wow, how does time fly so fast? Sorry for any delays in shipping out. Finally have these in production after a few delays. It won't be long now. I'm not sure how many are on the board that pre-ordered since it is difficult or impossible to associate a name with an email. If you want chime in here and let me know or PM your email and I will give a more detailed status update.

Thanks

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Are there any for sale that are not pre-orders?

Yep, just haven't changed the inventory level. Have about 30 available after the pre orders are shipped.

I appreciate the great pictures. However, when I tried to remove the screw I found that my hot ends (and the whole square heating element) screw in instead of slide up. My right side is about 1mm higher than my left side. I tried loosening the hot tip on the right side to make them even, wasnt a good solution.

Is your hot end assembly threaded also? One other tidbit, I thrashed the teflon tape wrapped around my heating element. Is it horrible to operate the machine without that orangish brown tape?

How old is your machine? What kind is it?

It is a PowerSpec 3D Pro which is a private label of the Flashforge Creator Pro. Have had it about 5 months. Everything was fine until one day it wasn't. One head is visibly lower than the other but cant figure out how to correct it. I plan on taking it apart this weekend and will post a picture or video of what I am seeing.

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Originally Posted by nmcafee

It is a PowerSpec 3D Pro which is a private label of the Flashforge Creator Pro. Have had it about 5 months. Everything was fine until one day it wasn't. One head is visibly lower than the other but cant figure out how to correct it. I plan on taking it apart this weekend and will post a picture or video of what I am seeing.

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What is surprising is you saying your thermal barrier tubes are threaded. They are threaded into the heater block like the nozzle is, but the outside of the tube on these printers are generally smooth. There is an older version of it that was threaded into the cooling bar, but the Powerspecs are new enough and shouldn't have that.

Will the new block you are selling fix my issue? Am not sure by looking at the picture if what I have will plug into it without problems.

I don't understand how moving the nozzle up will work. It won't be even at that point or if you move both up it can still be the same issue?

Take a picture of what you have if you can and post it up.

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Originally Posted by jfkansas

Take a picture of what you have if you can and post it up.

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Will do. This is my second powerspec 3d printer, this one has 20 minutes of print time and it seems the power supply is flaky. Turned off in the middle of a print, and didn't want to turn on today.
Last one lasted 2 days before a fan died

Ya, the word is the Powerspec printer was specced with a lower Amp rated power supply unfortunately. The good news is the printer costs about $550 less than a new Creator Pro and you can upgrade the power supply to better specs than either the Powerspec or Creator pro for about $50-60.

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Originally Posted by jfkansas

Ya, the word is the Powerspec printer was specced with a lower Amp rated power supply unfortunately. The good news is the printer costs about $550 less than a new Creator Pro and you can upgrade the power supply to better specs than either the Powerspec or Creator pro for about $50-60.

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I think my power supply may be wonky, power supply source? specs?
Thanks

Actually Amazon has some. You want a 24volt supply at about 15-16 amps. I think the powerspecs are 12amps. It should say on it.

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Originally Posted by jfkansas

Yep, just haven't changed the inventory level. Have about 30 available after the pre orders are shipped.

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what is your stock level like?

Out for about about a week, accepting preorders. Will ship out as soon as I get parts.

I'm struggling to get my extruder nozzles aligned as well and came across the same issue as SL666...the extruder motors must be removed to get to the set screw holding the nozzles in place. On another forum a user said to just shove the extruder all the way into the aluminum block. Seems reasonable but there's insulation around the extruder which likely eliminates any precision here.

i decided to go with your method, with a change: I remounted the whole extruder assembly but without the motors. In their place I used nuts to hold everything in place and could then get to the set screws and align the nozzles to the plate (your method). Once that was done I reinstalles the stepper motors. Crude but effective. Hope this helps someone, as the original post is brilliant, sans manufacturing changes!

Oh, and another question: does it matter if the extruder nozzles are covered with crud, so long as the tips are clean and unobstructed?

And for SL666: whenever I change filament I start by feeding (loading) filament before going into the unload step. Reduces those annoying disassemblies.

After reading every single post and going down a few tangents, I finally took the plunge and took apart my Dreamer. I used the instructions from page 6. I got my Dreamer in June 2015. It has dual fans in the back. Thank you to each of you for posting pictures and explaining in detail what to expect when taking the extruders off and reattaching them.

I started off just wanting to align the extruders. But then I lost a screw, so I had to take the bottom case off. And then I broke the side piece that goes to the side fan, so I had to reprint another one.

IT's been a blast. I never thought that I could do it. But, I did. And I'm proud. Ok. Self-confessed Noob. :) Mom of 5. Grad student. CEO of a small business. Trying to learn to help the future generation of kids.

Desh

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Originally Posted by ffvader

what is your stock level like?

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Stock level is replenished. Getting caught up on pre orders over the weekend.

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Originally Posted by jfkansas

Stock level is replenished. Getting caught up on pre orders over the weekend.

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Thanks for the update.. looking forward to receiving mine..

Several days ago my PowerSpec Pro, which had been working flawlessly for the 6 weeks I've had it (once the noxxle height issue was sorted out) quit printing in the midst of an ABS object. It went through the motions, but didn't extrude filament. When i went to investigate, I found the extruder was clogged. Took it off after trying the usual tricks, and found that the feed motor had jammed filament into the heating tube. Anyway, i got it cleared. In the process of burning off the crud on the nozzle with a propane torch (nozzle removed from extruder, obviously) I managed to deform the nozzle (too much heat). So I ordered a couple of new nozzles. But hey, this printer has two extruders. I only need one.

At this point, my printer got wonky, a great term. I use Simplify3D, btw. Now, when I send a job to the printer, the bed heats up as usual, but then the sucker starts to print before the extruder reaches temperature, with the obvious result. No thingy. Even pre-heating the extruder didn't work. The print would start, but after 10 minutes the extruder stops extruding.

To make matters stranger, this afternoon I replaced the bad nozzle and tried a print using that extruder. But the printer tried to use the un-selected extruder.

So after all that blab, is my printer broken, or is it Simplify3D? Opinions, thoughts, anyone?

That can happen if you are trying to run the Gcode file instead of the .x3g file.